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I just commented in my skull study open critique about your great suggestions. I came here to tell you how excited I am about all I’ve learned from your posts in the last few days. Then I saw the posts from Iliya and Joshua. Wow!!! Their comments and recommendations were amazing. I liked hearing that even Iliya has to review the names of the cephalometric points! Like they both said, keep up the great work and keep sharing!
Hi Joshua, @joshuajacobo
Ill try to respond to some of the points you made so you dont worry that Im going to sabotage myself, or maybe you can course correct me if youre not convinced by my thoughts haha
Firstly, thank you for taking the time to write, its always an honour when the likes of yourself and other instructors take time out of their day to comment on my efforts. Its an even bigger honour to know that you’re rooting for me, I really appreciate it. I have to admit, youre right. I do have a burning desire to learn more, and I am quite hard on myself.
I feel like I need to make up for lost time. I often question whether I have any talent at all when I see people younger than me that make me feel inadequate, but then I convince myself that I dont care if I dont have any talent at all. Im going to close that gap by working extremely hard. I was reassured when Glenn Vilppu recalled that Michelangelo burned all his drawings because he didnt want anyone know how hard he worked to get so good. Maybe even ‘The divine one’ also had these feelings, maybe he was secretly untalented. I’d like to think so.
Im sorry if I came across as a bit of a smart-ass or ignorant of the importance of the anatomical names, or not spending lots of time on everything. However, I’m just trying to build a foundation, and then continue to build on it and go back over things until I know everything like the back of my hand, I know this will take years. I also feel that I dont know what I dont know and cant work on it until I know it (I hope that makes sense).
Youre right, it might be too soon to assess the usefulness of a method. My approach to it has been, to learn the simpler things and build on it by learning more difficult and advanced techniques afterwards in what I perceive as a sequential progression. I am merging the bits I find suit my hand best together until I have my own approach. I hope to build on it until one day I’m “aiming for the real thing” as Vilppu says.
I am going to learn all of the names of the cephalometric points, just not all at once straight away, I also didnt want others to feel deterred by the difficulty of this task. I hope I didnt come across too flippant towards it. (That said, I do know where all the points are located, I have that side profile diagram in my memory. If Im being completely honest, I can remember the names of 10 of the points already as well as gonion and pogonion but i mix them up so i dont count them as being known yet).
I tend to look around and digest simpler information and loop back when I have a stronger understanding and more pencil miles to learn the harder stuff. It might sound obnoxious, but the way Im approaching it is that I want to learn the things that are so hard that nobody wants to do it. I want to become so good that nobody would turn me away. So when I find something hard, I dont stop. I come at it from different angles and then come back to what I got stuck on and usually I can understand it and advance (like my plan to work on perspective then come back to the skulls from imagination.)
There is no need to thank me for passing things on, I feel like it is my duty to pass it on and try to act in the best interest of others. I know the pain of learning this craft and, I know how much I appreciate every bit of help others give to me. I would feel guilty if I didnt help and discuss things with others.
I think my fear and doubt push me forward to keep working harder and keep applying myself and stressing my mind and hands. It might not be healthy, but I’ve always been this way, I think this anxious trait runs in my family.
As for endurance, there’s nothing I want more, nothing fulfils me the way art does, and Ive had this level of intensity my whole life, I was like this with my studies too. Anyway, I’m going to make this my life and career no doubt, responses like this from the people I admire and respect such as you and Illya that make me sure of it.
I cant thank you and Illya enough for the help you have both sprinkled into this thread over the past few weeks and months, its really encouraged me and pushed me along. It also helped me come up with a clear learning path in my mind of what things to work on and in what order.
I will be sure to keep posting and updating. I am so glad and flattered that you find my thread useful.
anyway, I hope you are having a great day (I never know how to sign off in these things).
p.s. thank you for the heads up on the Asaro head, Ill be sure to use it when it is available.
@Joshua, also, thanks for outlining the importance of significant time spent on these subjects and giving insight into your thinking and process, Ive found your post really helpful and has given me some pause. I think understand what you’re trying to convey and I will be sure to move forward with these things in mind.
@janstannard Hi Jan, I know, I’m completely floored by their responses and grateful that they took the time. I also took a lot of solace in the fact they also face similar troubles or feelings about these things. Glad to hear you’ve had some more developments, Ill have a look on your page if youve updated, be excited to see it 🙂
Alex, you can and should question everything you’re taught, including what we teach here. That analytical, even irreverent approach can help you over your career if you put it to good use.
It’s only a hindrance, as I said, if you’re making decisions or assessments too quickly. What we think we understand and what we actually understand are only loosely correlated or to put it as Glenn told me once years ago: “students don’t know what they don’t know.”
So it’s a bit of a catch 22. There is inevitably some level of trust in the equation. You need to trust us or someone to help put you on the right track.
Only in hindsight will you know if you made the right decision. Terrifying, I know.
I have met many artists who regret going to the art school they went to or learning a particular approach since they now feel they learned limiting shortcuts, or had instilled in them less useful ideas.
It’s one of my life’s goals that our students never regret trusting us. We try to give you the real stuff here.
As the student you need to strike that tenuous balance of working your heart out, reading everything, learning from experts and questioning what you are taught, but being open enough to realize that every opinion you have about art right now could change in a year or a month.
As for making up for lost time I also started later than my peers. I actually changed careers and focus completely as an adult so I can appreciate that sense of urgency. I think that the concept of talent is vastly overrated, though. Some of the best artists I know have confided to me that they weren’t particularly good as students and only over the years since school did they overtake other artists. Again I believe it’s about endurance.
If you want to be truly great, you need to work not just a little harder than the next artist but much harder. You need to have a deeper understanding of every concept and a better knowledge of your subject matter. But it’s also about mileage. There are things that just won’t click until you’ve dealt with it “in the field” and then you’ll understand a sentence or a point that a teacher tried to impart. You’ll come back and watch the lectures and demonstrations again now that you understand the importance.
We were speaking with perspective expert Craig Attebary (wrote the best perspective book in existence imo) a week or so ago and he was saying that students blow off perspective in their ’20s and then rediscover and try to relearn it in their ’30s. That’s how it works. We never stop learning. From our experience, from other artists, from the masters. The only way we can fail at this is when we stop learning and stop growing.
As for fear being a driver, if it really helps you use it. Michael Jordan used to invent insults that opposing teammates never actually said, in order to manipulate himself to dominate them on the court. We all respond differently to emotional drivers. If you need a bit of panic to get the pencil moving, fine! Delusions of grandeur? It brings you a healing calmness when you draw? Prove that terrible art teacher wrong? Whatever works for you!
Any way, keep it up. I’ll try to check in on this thread from time to time.
@joshuajacobo definitely in the “regretting art school” camp. Thank you again for these words, it puts a lot in perspective for me, Ill be looking forward to hearing from you. Also, amazing to hear you were so late to this as into adulthood, you should get people to share their stories and yours as a series on NMA to G up aspiring artists 🙂
#40 & 41
so took some time off art as I have had a bereavement in my family and I had some other stuff to do. I still have enough days to finish out getting 100 days in 2020 finished on this forum post. Got a bit bored of this drawing so decided to leave it here for now. I’m just not a render junkie, I get bored after a couple of hours of corrections and moving things around, I often have renewed interest if I leave it to one side and come back to it so maybe I will do that at some point. anyone got any advice on that front? anyway, I think I applied the critiques that Illya gave me as far as I am consciously aware. Im going to do the final angle and move on I think. I also didnt detail the orbicularis oris area as much as I would have liked because it is unclear what exactly is going on on the model because of all the lumps and bumps. I think I will look at some cadaver images and also some of the other 3d recourses available at some point in the future to get a better Idea of what is happening.
This looks great. I’m sorry to hear about your loss.
I also get bored rendering. It can help to not work too long in one session, because you may get bored and draw more lazily (wrapping it up without realizing it to move on). Maybe work shorter sessions over several days to stay fresh and interested. Spend more time in the initial stages so you’re excited to execute a great drawing.
Thank you for your condolences. Also thank you for your advice, I will keep pushing forwards 🙂 @joshuajacobo
I’m sorry for your loss, Alex. Perhaps your art will play a part in the healing process. I always look forward to your posts as I find them very motivating. Your muscle study is exceptional. I really like your rendering even if it’s not your favorite activity. Joshua’s suggestion to work in shorter sessions seems like a great way to eliminate the feeling of boredom. I know I can become immersed for hours on one small section of a drawing to where it become almost hypnotic. I’m not sure, though, if that facilitates improvement as much as when I’m more conscious of my work. It does seem like always having a challenge to work on helps keep my energy and focus. I also wanted to say that I really appreciate your comments on my last two studies. I do feel like I’ve made some progress, and your suggestions have helped tremendously!
@janstannard thank you, Jan. I think part of my problem is I am quite heavy handed so take a long time pushing things around and reining things in which extends the overall time. Ill just have to keep in mind what joshua said and keep going for now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vapw6n6FyU Why is this not common knowlege? this makes everything make so much more sense!
This was great! I’ve watched other Proko videos on shading, but this one adds a new level of understanding. The title “Mind-Blowing Realistic Shading Tricks” is very appropriate. Reading more about “Lambert’s cosine emission law” definitely made me aware of my math deficiencies!
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